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[ Laughter, ], okay, hello, everyone and welcome to the jobcast. Today we're talking about ageism in the job search, a topic that has been brought up frequently in our past job casts. I'm excited to introduce our guest speaker today.

Kenneth johnson, he is president of the diversity recruitment, firm east coast executives, a forbes career coach, google, honor, facilitator, tedx, speaker and organizer of tedx. Harlem kenneth is host of the national urban league's.

Digital career success, series and host of the career seekers show on 106.5 fm wppm in philly and that's me, i'm travis steva as a recruitment evangelist here at indeed, i work with employers across all industries to help them understand How to use indeed to attract the right candidates and how to improve their hiring process so with introductions out of the way take it away.

Kenneth. Thank you so much for the incredible introduction travis. I really appreciate it. Uh, listen while, while you guys are looking over the learning objectives for today's session, i would like to remind you that today's session is interactive and there will be a q, a segment where travis, and i will answer some Of your questions here on the nd platform, all right, so, according to a 2017 national survey by aarp of adults, over 45 60 percent of respondents reported having seen or experienced age discrimination in the workplace.

Older women, african-americans hispanics and those who are unemployed were more likely to feel they were subject were the subject of discrimination as an experienced diversity, recruitment, professional and career coach.

I am often entrusted with stories of perceived age discrimination both in the workplace and during the job search process. Here is why we are here today: 76 of older workers see age discrimination as a hurdle to finding a new job, an indeed survey back in january, when users of all ages were asked.

What is your biggest challenge in finding a job eleven percent answered age discrimination. It was the third highest response, after only not enough experience and no response from employer. The mature workforce, age, 55 and plus is expected to make up a quarter of employed u.

s adults by 2026.. It's, the fastest growing age group in the workforce. The covet 19 pandemic has forced many to return to work and or make a career pivot, amplifying the importance of addressing ageism on all levels.

Let's, be clear. The issue of ageism and hiring it isn't in your heads and you aren't the only one experiencing it that's. Why we're here today, while many employers may not intend to discriminate on the basis of age, we know that it can happen.

Another thing i want to make clear the responsibility for avoiding discrimination in the hiring process should fall on the employers, not on you as a job seeker. It's, not fair, that you have to sit here today to get tips for avoiding ageism, but we know that's.

The world we live in discrimination is rooted in fear of differences, and some employers may cite concerns over hiring older candidates. These concerns are essentially myths. They persist when we don't have evidence to contradict them.

These myths create widespread challenges, with the results that older workers may face bias when applying for jobs or feel that they are being pressured into premature retirement. Meanwhile, pushing older workers out of sight perpetuates the negative stereotypes that they don & # 39.

T belong. These probably aren't new to you, so here's. Some of the myths, older workers, are counting the days until retirement employers may think that your burnout and can't wait to stop working when, in fact, many older workers are eager to extend their careers and not just for money, but also for friendly.

Colleagues, respect and an opportunity to use their skills for a worthwhile project. Many also find working keeps them mentally and physically active and socially connected. Ultimately, many older workers want to stay engaged on the job, but with the flexibility to enjoy this new stage of their careers, preferring part-time work.

Another common myth is that older workers, don't, have the necessary skills to succeed in today.'s; workplaces in reality, many older americans by now have had computers for over three decades. We all live in a digital world encompassing email, smartphones, ebooks, virtual assistants and more and americans age 50 to 64 rely on today's technologies as much as the overall population does.

What's more many older workers express a desire to continue learning and growing professionally far from being burned out. They perform well at tasks that utilize their years of professional knowledge, experience and critical thinking.

Skills are excited to put their talents to use while learning new, marketable skills. Another myth, aren't older workers, uncomfortable reporting to younger managers. This myth equated to age with on the job seniority is an outdated myth in today's multi-generational workplace.

Maybe some younger managers are uncomfortable managing people with experience with more experience than they have it's possible, accepting directions from someone much younger could be difficult, but if managers respect what employees of any age know, then older workers aren't As likely to get resentful, encouraging positive relationships between younger managers and older workers, upends traditional ideas about leadership and challenges, aegis assumptions by supporting both older employees and younger managers, employers provide new models of seniority at work and actively challenge the bias in this action.

Kenneth i wanted to actually make a comment here about my experience. Uh i actually am older than the average indeed employee by 13 years and when i started uh at indeed at the time my boss was 16 years older than me.

His boss was just a few years. Excuse me, he was 16 years younger than me, and his boss was just a few years younger than me, and it created a little bit of awkwardness, especially the first time that he had to give me feedback.

He stumbled over his words kind of a word, salad and and because he knew that i had experience managing people, whereas this was his first time doing it uh. So i recognized this and i said: hey are you trying to tell me this? He's like yes, yes, that's.

What i'm trying to say - and i was like - are you trying to tell me this? Yes, that's? What that's? What i'm trying to say it just made him more comfortable in the situation by telling him to say: listen, i've, been getting feedback on the job for 20 years.

You can give it to me and we can have a conversation about it, that's, how this works uh and as it turns out, you know i was brought onto the team because of my experience of age, so i could start very quickly and Bring a little bit more maturity to a very young team, so you know having that conversation between older and younger managers and having that conversation, even in the interview process, is going to be helpful to having a productive workplace that's.

Multi-Generational man, thanks for sharing that story, travis and i'm sure it resonates well with the audience you know. Another myth is that older workers will only accept high salaries. So, while maybe the case that seasoned workers expect to be paid in line with their experience, they wouldn't apply if it was impossible for them to live on that salary.

If an applicant knows what the job pays and is still interested, it should be up to that applicant to make the decision. So now let's. Talk about the actual benefits of hiring older workers. Older workers can be more loyal to their employers and stay at companies longer.

According to a 2019 survey by the bureau of labor statistics, baby boomers held an average of 12.3 jobs from age 18 to 52, with nearly half being held before the age of 25.. They can offer a strong set of skills and experience.

Older workers may have decades of industry experience, skills and expertise, and that is difficult to teach. They can also serve as an important role as mentors. They may have strong networks to bring to your business since they've, been in the workforce.

Longer older workers may have had more time to establish an extensive network of clients and contacts. I'll share with you here at east coast executives. We often leverage the knowledge, contacts and experience of our senior recruiters to better understand, not only historical trends, but also to tap into long-established networks.

They're. Often the people that drive our business and position us to be successful. Older workers can bring different perspectives and ideas, and we really appreciate that multiple viewpoints lead to better decision making and problem.

Solving the perspective of a 60-year-old, for example, can provide insight that a 25-year-old may not. Research also suggests that multi-generational teams are more productive and have less turnover than teams of the same age.

I actually touch on this. In my tedx talk the face of workplace diversity, diverse teams always outperform homogeneous teams, and that applies to mature workers as well. So when searching for a job, you likely have a list of non-negotiables and preferences such as company values, salary benefits, leadership, style and more.

These are great ways to filter your job search to find the best most relevant opportunities for you. If you are a mature job seeker, another employer quality, you may consider is age, diversity, tolerance or, in other words, a culture built and maintained to equally support, employ and advance individuals, regardless of their age.

One way to do this is during the job search phase is by paying close attention to the language employers use throughout the hiring process, age, discrimination and job descriptions are sometimes obvious, for instance, when companies advertise that they're.

Looking for someone young or a recent college graduate, you know aegis language can be more subtle, though people can use terms like fresh tech, savvy digital native, flexible, energetic, active high potential language like this is often coded and refers to young candidates, and, if you see it In a job description, it might signal that the employer or culture may not be supportive and inclusive.

It's worth noting here that indeed take steps to improve job postings that include the phrase digital native through their search quality team, who monitors postings. That may be discriminatory, they've removed these job postings on the md platform.

This is great. You know in the course of my job, i literally read thousands of job descriptions, and i see a lot of this language. Kenneth and a lot of it is coded - you just have to know what to look for another another thing that's, not on this list.

That i see a lot is that we talk about. You know we work hard and we play hard um or language around happy hours or late hours or burning midnight oil, all implying that you know they are looking for a younger worker who may not have a family to go home to uh.

At the end of that, knowing what this language means to the person who wrote it when you look at one of these jobs or apply to one of these jobs or interview for one of these jobs, um is going to be very helpful for you, for you Know addressing that uh right out of the gate and saying you know, listen, you know i love a good social hour, but you know the kids get off work at school and i got ta be home by 5 30.

. You know sort of things like that. Sometimes too, so it's. Uh uh it's, important to be able to know what these employers are seeking when they use language like this and how you might fit into it or how you might be unknowingly discriminated against in your application.

For it, you know, travis age bias in the screening stage is common and often unconscious. So thank you for bringing up those points. Hiring managers may do this right. They may ignore applicants with a college graduation date over 20 years ago.

They disregard applicants with a resume longer than three pages they might pass on an applicant because they don't, have a social media presence. I'll. Tell you our team at east coast executives immediately when we receive a client or candidate into the portal, they often do do a google search just to kind of see what this person's doing on social media.

So you know, i believe that to be true, but we have to kind of put those biases aside and just look at the candidates for what they bring to the table. Oftentimes recruiters may reject applicants with an email address that ends in hotmail or aol.

com is a person that's once had hotmail email addresses. I find this to be true. I do think that people may discriminate when they see older email addresses. So keep all of that information in mind.

You know during the interview, the hiring manager may blatantly ask questions related to your age like your birth year or graduation date. They may also signal bias through questions like when do you expect to retire? Are you comfortable working for a younger manager? Can you keep up with our company's? Technology demands? Where do you see yourself in five or ten years? Do you have any chronic diseases or health issues? In addition, if you have multiple interviewers, please pay attention to how age diverse the panel is.

Panel interviews are common now, and sometimes they're virtual, but you can still take a look and see kind of what the culture is like at the organization by seeing who the people are on the panel, and with that in mind, it may be Helpful to research, the values and culture before you apply for jobs in order to find the right company for you, indeed,'s.

Company pages are a good place to find information about an employer from current and former employees indeed recently launched a new feature on company pages, called the work happiness score that goes beyond the typical employee reviews to show you how employees might actually feel at work.

We started to use this tool in our coaching and prospecting here at east coast executives, and i find it to be an exceptional resource. Indeed, research developed with global academic partners has identified 13 dimensions of work happiness, including trust, appreciation, support, inclusion and belonging.

So if a company has a low score for inclusion, for instance, that could be a sign of a potential bias in the workplace. We can't provide any legal advice on dealing with discrimination, but we can provide advice to help you in your job search, starting with your resume, because your resume is typically your first chance to make an impression on the employer.

It is also the first chance age buys can be introduced into the hiring process. So here are five tips to optimize your resume, so employers will be more likely to focus on your skills, qualifications and qualities instead of your age.

One of the most important things about your resume is that it is clean, meaning it is professional, looking and easy to read. If you're unsure what a modern professional resume looks like you can start by browsing free templates on, indeed that have been created based on employer preferences.

This is important. A study by found that recruiters on average spend seven seconds. Looking at your resume, so with that in mind, while the specifications of a clean and professional resume may vary by industry, you can start by making sure your resume meets the following standards and needs to fit comfortably on one page.

Unless you are an executive or senior leader, your margin should be about a half an inch to an inch maximum. One professional, easy to read. Font should be used throughout keep your font sizes to about 10 to 12 points, apart from section headers, which can be slightly larger, bold, your name and section headers.

Always there are some free professional resume templates and resources on the nd platform as well all right. So you're, getting your resume together! Let's. Talk about contact information, your name remember! Your resume is not a legal document, so it is acceptable to use your preferred name on your resume.

For example, my name's. Kenneth, that's, my legal name, but often on my resume, i use ken johnson. You will use your legal name for other official documents during the hiring process, such as background checks and insurance forms again, email consider using the current email domain as opposed to platforms that were popular when email first became a widespread form of communication, such as aol or Hotmail, it is best to use a professional email address that is not distracting.

Let me give you an example here. So, instead of using hockeydad58 at let's just say you may opt for j.smith Your address, including your full physical address, is no longer necessary, since much of the hiring process is done online and doing so raises safety concerns for some candidates.

You can include your city and state, or even just your state is acceptable phone numbers be sure to only include one phone number that you can most reliably be contacted by and remember to record a brief professional, personal voicemail message.

Instead of leaving the default message now, this is important as well and please make sure your voicemail inbox is not full preventing recruiters like myself from leaving a message. Kenneth make sure yeah it's.

Personalized at least has your first name on there, so that the recruiter knows that they have reached the right place. Don't just leave. You know the robot voice, saying you have reached, make it personal valid point.

We like to know that we're, reaching the right person uh, because you likely have a wealth of valuable experience that employers want to read about. It is typically best to move your education section to the bottom of your resume.

We see this often. We see people position their education at the top of the resume and honestly as a recruiter. We we appreciate the commitment and the work that you put in to receive that education, but we really want to get into your work history as fast as possible.

Remember sometimes, you only have seven seconds to catch the attention of the recruiter, so removing associated education, attendance dates and details like your gpa, can also remove distraction of an older graduation date.

The more you can create interest around your work experience the better. If you have advanced degrees, like your masters or phd, include those in rank order of level, so in this example, the candidate included two diplomas, a masters of business administration, mba and a masters of science and information systems msis, but you see how they have them listed.

Remember your resume will likely go through an applicant tracking system. Us recruiters and hiring professionals call this the ats it'll, go to through the ats before it's read by human eyes. So, keep that in mind and ats is just a software used by employers to sort through all of the applications they initially receive for a job.

Posting recruiters and hiring managers filter through resumes by using the ats, to identify specific keywords and phrases that indicate the applicant is a good fit for the role to help get past the ats.

It's, vitally important that you carefully read the job description and tailor your resume accordingly include keywords that apply to your background. In your resume summary skills and professional experience, sections avoid over adding keywords which ats & # 39.

S are generally able to flag by including keywords with natural language, instead of carelessly adding a high volume of keywords throughout. We have a trick in the trade here at east coast executives.

So we use this on our career coaching platform and it's called a word cloud generator. A standard internet search will give you a ton of word cloud generators, but what you do you copy and paste the position description and add it into the word cloud generator box and it & # 39.

Ll, create an image with the keywords that you need. Usually in a different color or maybe a larger font, those are the keywords and you can pull those out and make sure that they're on your resume and positioned to make you successful.

There's, a lot of different strategies to beat the applicant tracking system and land interviews, and there'll, be a link in the chat that'll. That will support you in that. So, while you may have more than 15 years of professional experience, including jobs older than 15 years, may distract employers from your wealth of skills and qualifications and give away your age, you should also consider removing less relevant jobs.

That may not add value to the specific role you're applying for doing so can also help you keep your resume on one page without cramming it with small, fonts or extra thin margins. Remember a lot of white space.

Recruiters want to be able to read your resume, so you have to be strategic in the way that you create it. Your most recent jobs should be the longest. You probably want to have five to seven descriptive bullets, but the rest of your jobs should have about two to four bullets.

Remember, instead of including job descriptions and general duties describe the specific impact you were able to make at each of your jobs with numbers when possible. Remember to quantify when possible.

For example, a district manager could say, surpass profit goals by 10 percent in the summer of 2016 performing outperforming other districts in sales and profits. Instead of putting responsible for meeting profit goals by establishing quarterly sales strategies, yeah that's, a kind of that's, a really good point and something else i'd like to make is that using percentages and rates are Going to be a lot better than using raw numbers, you can tell me that you sold two million dollars worth of goods, but i don't know if that's good or bad.

But if you told me you did hit 150 percent of quota. I know that's, really good, so uh rates and percentages or things that are relative, as opposed to brawl numbers, are going to be more meaningful and they also tend to be shorter.

So that's, also helpful as well and kenneth. We have a lot of questions around the stuff in the q and a slides. So before we move on, i'm, going to bring some of those up, so you and i can talk about them here.

Let's. Do it. We have a lot of questions about you know. Should i include dates on there as well? We covered that as well. You should probably remove dates of your graduation. You really don't want to have jobs in there older than 15 years, as we've noted.

Another really common question is what about gaps in employment? You can certainly address those um. You may not want to mention the specific jobs, but you can certainly say you know these years. I had a variety of jobs and then you can list the soft skills that you develop during that kenneth.

I know you have some thoughts on that. Sometimes it's, caretaking, sometimes that you're, trying a different career, but noting those things uh in order to eliminate large gaps in your employment history, um is fine, you know - and sometimes you know it's really important - That you look at your your job search toolkit, and so your cover letter is part of that, and sometimes you can explain some of those gaps there.

But you know don & # 39, t, be afraid to add a section to your resume. That kind of elaborates a little more takes a deeper dive into why you were were away from work for an extended period of time, uh recruiters.

Now we understand uh. Listen! We're in covet 19 right now and we've, been through some downturns in the economy. So we understand what's happening with our candidates, so there is a human side to this as well.

Absolutely and kennedy hit the nail on the head the place to address a lot of that isn't a cover letter. If that is available, you can even you know, create a a goals. Uh or you know, mission section in your resume.

That directly addresses the fact that you're, maybe making a career pivot or you're. Looking for different kinds of work now or you've been out of the workforce for a long time because of x um. But you can you can address those things uh, you know certainly head on, especially if it's going to be easy to surmise from your resume that you are a mature worker there.

Absolutely you know the entire package right so reviewing job descriptions can also help you and then identify your industry's current words, skills qualities that align with the employer's expectations, and you know some of those questions.

Travis were directly related to the employer's expectations, but keep in mind if you're, providing the right information on your resume document and you make yourself a viable candidate and an attractive candidate.

They'll, be willing to share some of those conversations with you in a in a virtual or face-to-face setting, and that's, where you can answer some of that as well. So don't, try to explain everything in the cover letter or on the resume, but sometimes leave yourself open to having that conversation live and, like you said, using the job descriptions that are currently posted out there to learn how things are currently addressed Or using more modern language and updating your resume accordingly, i'll.

Give you an example. You know for for 15 years i took care of the customer after the sale, and that was sometimes called customer service. Customer support um, you know professional services, but when i came back around, i learned that that's.

All called customer success these days, so i just went back and changed my titles to customer success so that i could more align with the way the language that people are using at this stage and you can always search for jobs uh on, indeed, for free to Find out exactly how people are describing it and hopefully that resume will get you on.

You know towards the uh, where's, the interview, i love it. You want to stay up to date with the latest industry standards. Very good tip circle back to indeed to find out what's happening all right. So let's move forward.

So unless you are particularly blessed with good genes, your age is probably obvious. Once you get into the interview stage, we talked about virtual and face-to-face interviews right, so preparing your interview.

Preparing for your interview ahead of time can help you appear calm, confident as well as help you address any inappropriate age, related comments or questions. This applies to everyone in advance of your interview.

Please explore opportunities to participate in mock interview, workshops or simply record yourself. You know i & # 39. Ll share a story. We had a candidate that we worked with on our career coaching portal and she was an exceptional candidate in the financial service industry and every time we we met with her.

She was very much in line with what we believed our clients were looking for, but she never had success in the actual interviews. Resume was great. She would get the interviews, but wouldn't have success travis.

So what happened? We had her come in and do a mock interview with us, and we realized that she had this portfolio and it had a pen that she was able to click and as soon as we started the interview, her nervous energy caused her to click that pen consistently.

It drove us crazy. We stopped the mock interview and said: listen if this is what you're doing in your interviews. This may be the thing that's, preventing you from moving forward. I promise you the next interview she had.

We gave her a regular pen that didn't click. She landed the job, amazing story and uh. I just wanted to say that sometimes you're, just not familiar with what's happening, so it's. Important to kind of pull other people into the to the support role.

Absolutely have someone watch you record yourself, you've got a video camera right here, uh and you'll. Be surprised what you learned about yourself, uh, if you just record it for yourself for just a few minutes.

You know speaking of preparation. It can help to research common interview, questions in general, as well as for your specific industry, right it's. Also helpful to prepare for behavioral based interview, questions that test your situational skills and ability to respond throughout on your feet.

You can use the star technique response method. In these cases we teach this technique in our classes. We actually do a workshop at the google learning center in manhattan on the star technique. While it's closed now because of covet but um, it was great and the feedback was always amazing.

You may have heard of this before or heard it called the car method where c stands for challenge, but this works the same way. Star stands for situation. Task action results, use this technique to give your answers a deliberate story arc that hiring managers can easily follow.

You craft your story to address the following questions: what is the context of your story? What was your role in the situation? What did you do and what did your actions lead to yeah? This is an extremely common method, kenneth that you talk about here in a very, very powerful way for you to talk about your skill set um and your effectiveness using the situation task action result, and this is not something that you most people just do.

Naturally, it's, something you have to practice, and i'm here to tell you that if you haven't interviewed in a couple of years or you're changing careers, you're out Of practice right it's, not like riding a bike.

You need to practice and try it and so um practice. The star responses to common interview, questions that you might be asked about the industry. You know for a fact: you're, going to be asked. Questions like tell me about yourself.

Why do you want this job? Why should i hire you? Why are you leaving? Where do you see yourself in five to ten years um, you know the star method is a great way to talk about those questions that say tell me about a time when you demonstrated a skill to you know, fix a thing resolve a conflict to win over A client that sort of thing that's, a fantastic way to do it, but you know you're, going to be asked those questions like i just wrote it off there.

So having not, i'm, not going to say a scripted but practice what you would say and make sure you don't it. So you don't ramble in a job interview. Make sure that you can answer these questions in 30 to 120 seconds and answer it directly and succinctly, and the only way to do that is to practice it.

It's to write it down, figure out exactly what you want to say. That demonstrates your skills and your effectiveness so that you can be prepared when you inevitably get asked questions like this and definitely a best practice.

You know, and speaking about some interview, best practices, things that you'll, see that are meant to directly counter myths that we talked about earlier right, so emphasize your excitement for the role instead of your wealth of experience, for example, you might show that You are excited about the opportunity by studying their business model and mission and coming to the interview prepared with ideas that pertain to your role.

This is a little different than the star technique. It's, a deeper dive for sure, but it's very important. You want to express your willingness to both lead and follow it's, important that as a mature candidate, you communicate a desire to collaborate.

Collaboration skills are highly valued in today's workforce and you should prioritize them as such. In the interview you want to indicate your ability to be self-sufficient employers, value self-aware candidates who are able to find answers to simple questions, identify their strengths and weaknesses and identify ways to improve.

You should also communicate your ability and eagerness to learn and to get up to speed quickly, communicate your ability to work with different people. Collaboration again. Diversity in age is equally as important in the workforce as diversity in race, culture, ideas, gender and more.

It is important to express how you value, working with people who are different different from you and how you might resolve inevitable conflict professionally when it arises kenneth. We we have a couple of questions around this where they get asked interviews.

How can you, you know, interact with people who are all the majority of this company who is like 35 years uh and younger, and i think we kind of indicate it here too, you can be proactive about that. You can talk about situations if you're, a parent.

You know about how you deal with younger folks. Talk about situations in your life where you are surrounded by folks are younger than you, but kenneth. What advice might you give someone who is who gets asked like? How do you deal with people who might be 15 25 years younger than you uh when the majority of the company is that way? You know, i think it's, really important travis to to display your listening skills.

I think a lot of times in those environments uh as a mature worker. We go into the role of hey. I've, been here before. Let me tell you what to do, but sometimes people are just looking for you to listen and kind of serve as someone that they can just kind of bounce things off and then, when the time permits you may want to go into sharing experiences.

But it's, going to be really important, that you value the input and the communication of the younger worker in that setting what you want to do even this this this holds true in the interview process as well.

You want to show genuine interest in your interviewer, so you want to ask thoughtful smart questions about your interviewer, their role in the organization. You know you can build the connection with your interviewer through asking those types of questions it's, not always about you.

It's, always always about them. If you do this, you can build a rapport and encourage a positive experience for both parties. During the interview it's, it's, super important uh to show interest. You know the answer to why you want this.

Job is not because you know i need the paycheck. We all need a paycheck right, uh, you. You want to show some genuine curiosity uh about the role and some really good questions to ask that are applicable to almost industry industry.

Almost any industry is. Why is this position open uh tell me about the team that i'll, be working with if you're, not interviewing with a hiring manager. Ask about your hiring manager. Ask how the role is to be evaluated right.

How are you going to be measured? What does success? Look like all of these things are absolutely uh valid questions to ask, and if you're, not curious about them um, it indicates that you haven't, put much thought uh in to the process, and it also indicates the interviewer when You do ask questions like this, that you are genuinely interested.

These are sort of questions that again, you would tend to ask when you've had more than one job right. You're. You are a more mature worker. You want to know you've, been through in the past. How am i evaluated? What's? The team, like um, that sort of thing man, amazing information, uh, you know when you're sharing this information and when you're engaged in that interaction, although you want to be confident, but you have to be mindful to have calm Body language: throughout your interview, you want to make eye contact and smile, and this also conveys that you're.

Listening, listen a lot of times in the portal. We find that people get concerned about how to dress you. Don't have to dress in a way that will make you feel like you're, fitting in simply show up in a clean tidy clothing.

That makes you feel confident. If you're unsure business casual is usually the safe option that's, something we always teach. You know when you're in these interview settings you want to redirect the conversation in the event of any inappropriate comments or questions.

If your interview makes comments about or ask, questions related to age, politely, ask clarifying questions or simply steer the conversation back towards the actual job, for example, if they ask some something such as, how long do you plan to work, you might say something like at this Stage in my career, i want to employ my background to serve a mission i care about like yours, the ways i believe i'm best equipped to make a difference at the company are, and then you tie your skill set directly to the organizational Mission, this information should be available on the company website or by doing your research online.

But if you do your research and when you're having these conversations, if you kind of understand the big picture, you'll, be able to steer the conversation in the direction that you feel most comfortable in and kenneth.

We are getting a lot of questions uh around this, including the previous one. You know what happens if they ask you how you're, going to deal with that? One of the good things about being a mature worker is that self-awareness and self-mastery uh are things that only come with maturity, uh, so uh.

The ability to you know calmly, pivot um and talk about what you can bring as opposed to what you don't bring. Uh is going to be uh, something that you know you should practice and consider, but yeah um, redirecting it back towards the job and the skill set is going to be uh one of the best practices here you know definitely a best practice and travis.

You know in today's. Environment. Many employers are conducting virtual interviews now, instead of in-person interviews, you know they're continuing to hire during cove at 19., don't. Let anyone tell you that people aren't hiring, they're, definitely hiring, but you need to be prepared, and this means that you have to use zoom or video call technologies to interview and, as we said earlier, one big concern.

Those hiring managers may have about older candidates is their ability to use today's technology, i'm gonna be transparent. We were setting up to do this actual session and we had tech issues it happens, but the key is that we prepared for that and we were able to be successful due to that preparation.

So preparing for technology needs to be a part of your interview cycle. So this means it's on you to debunk the myth by being prepared there's a whole other job cast dedicated to virtual interview tips, but here are a few that may be helpful.

You want to download the necessary apps. You want to check that your webcam microphone and audio are working check your internet connection and make sure you're, not downloading. Anything in the background find flattering lighting and angles for your video.

All of these things will help. You show the interviewer that you're comfortable with technology and again you can look at the job cast hired from home. There's, going to be a link in the chat. I hope that we were successful in providing some great information for you guys today.

Listen. This is what i do for a living i enjoy it. I love the work. I want to thank the team at indeed brandy, travis, everyone for kind of supporting me and delivering this to you, and if you want to get in contact with me, please feel free to reach out on any of these platforms.

This is the work i do. I'm kenneth johnson president and diversity recruiter at east coast executives. Thank you. Thank you. So much for your insight and delivery. There, uh, kenneth and and uh. Now, with our limited time, we're, going to try to take some q.

A i did my best to answer some of the biggest questions while we were presenting um, but i'm going to try to cover uh some some here and now we'll, go through them, uh pretty quickly and brandi. Keep me honest on time: um every job i've applied to uh has me fill out their online application, their ats systems.

They all ask for specific dates. How do you avoid this? The short answer is sometimes you can't um, but i would add uh that you really only want to include the relevant uh experience uh in there kenneth anything to add as a recruiter.

You know yeah. We spoke about this in the uh in the segment right, so you want to go back 15 years uh. So there you go like just you. Don't have to go back to you, know anything past 15 years i know relevant experience is really important and i hope that you're applying for jobs that you're qualified for, but i just think that you Can control some of that by you know kind of tailoring the resume and tailoring your responses on the applicant tracking system interface.

Yeah next question: is there a good way to proactively bring up the age issue cover letter uh mission uh is possible there uh as well on your resume or a goal statement is one way to be very proactive about that.

But the cover letter lets you cover letter is always good for covering things that aren't completely evident by looking at bullets on a resume and that's. Where you tell your story, this is where you have more space and more time and more creativity, and that's, where i would recommend being proactive there.

You know i agree and we teach something called the disruptive cover letter where you're, tying your unique experience directly to the product and or services of the company that you're applying to and listen when you can kind of make That connection, sometimes all the other stuff doesn't matter.

You're, making a connection that you are part of that company's. Tribe uh. Try that out as well um and we'll. Take we'll. Take one more question because this actually happened to uh to me so um i feel i've, been rejected as overqualified for some jobs, because at my age i'm, expected to be in a higher level position or in management.

Yet i'm, not interested in these positions. What's? The best way to spend this in the interviews you just did um say i know what the job is, the job i want. You know um, or there are certain things i don't want to be a people leader i mean self-awareness, is a gift of that only because of maturity so being direct about it.

At that point in time, um is, is going to be very helpful. Kenneth yeah! You know, i think, that's, why it's, so important to use the star technique right uh, because you know you can kind of combat some of those tendencies for people to believe that you're overqualified, not interested In the job, by sharing stories about how you & # 39, ve went above and beyond in other roles and to make people comfortable.

Sometimes you need to share a story that aligns you directly with the thing you're, looking to either prove or combat, and those stories are powerful and the star technique's, a great way to convey them well, uh.

We are out of time um. Sorry, we couldn't, go on questions uh. They're, all really good um in many ways, but uh we're gonna remember, to look for the links uh in the chat and for the email of this recording.

I don't. Have all these resources in there in the future? Thank you all so very much for your time and attention today and good luck out there. You